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 General Guide: Ness

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Number of posts : 80
Registration date : 2009-08-21

PostSubject: General Guide: Ness   Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:18 pm

Taken from Smashboards. All credit goes to Ref

The Up tilt (Up A): Its priority is broken… Well not really but it beats a lot of aerials. It can chain to other attacks really well. It’s highly disjointed, Use it when juggling or once you land to knock a foe in the air. This is one of Ness’ good moves dealing 7%. You can also pressure shields with this. Short hop N air to up tilt works pretty well on lower percents.

The down tilt (Down A): This is not usually the kind of move you’ll use because of its short range and ease it takes to shield it. However you probably do forget how powerful it is dealing 4% each hit. This is great for refreshing your move set on destructible objects. You can get an opponent up a bit of damage and run away almost laglessly. However the short range and having better options really hinders this move.

The forward smash (Smash forward and A): This move is very powerful if sweet spotted, it can deal 25% with devastating knock back. The sweet spot is located on the tip of the bat. As you go further in it becomes weaker with less damage and knock back. In total the Forward smash can hit a whooping 33% fully charged. The lag on this move and the reduced shield lag make it now punishable. It does contain some start up lag, however it is fairly easy to hit of you use it right. The range and priority is really good. It can easily hit from great distances by passing many if not all attacks. Use of it is situational however once you get how to land it, it will help. Just do not swing it for KOs too much, this will lead to punishment.

The up smash (Smash up and A): This move is probably the most versatile move of Ness’s with pretty good range and great priority it can lead to great defensive game. The key to using this is to punish rollers and defending yourself. The knock back and damage isn’t too great, a good thing is the yoyo hurts when charging; a good way to use this is by sticking it at a person’s shield. They will see the shield get hit and try to attack. Once the shield is released release the yoyo, the timing is pretty hard most of the time it’s best to try and predict your opponent’s speed in releasing the shield.

The down smash (Smash Down and A): This move is probably the most under rated, it hits in both directions making it really good for punishing rollers. The problem is the lag it has. This makes certain moves a better choice than it. However if you practice enough with this move you’ll be able to hit, quite a bit of times, people who are not rolling. It can and probably was first intended to be used to edge guard, if you plan to use it that way do it against characters that cannot sweet spot the edge. My favorite use of the down smash is for range and fake retreats; you go to turn around then this huge ranged high priority attack hits the opponent behind you… If I were them I’d be kind of surprised.

Dash attack (Running A): Not much to say about this move. It consists of three hit boxes well placed. It has good range a good priority. Using this move can get you punished but not too badly. It is a decent approach, that’s about all there is…[/COLOR]

Neutral Air (Aerial A): This move’s hit box stays out for quite a bit of time. It also has great priority. Doing this out of shield of a short hop is really effective. This move actually activates really fast too. If you are being juggled and want to get out while dealing some damage, this move is the way to go. On characters with short ranged attacks this move is great. It is sometimes a better choice than the Forward air because of its ability to deal quick damage with some knock back. There is not much of a wrong way to use this move.

Forward Air (Forward Aerial A): Spamming this move to win is not too bad of an Idea, while it’s always better to combine Ness’s aerials; abuse of the move can go without punished. It has good range and good priority. The key is to retreat to an extent to not get shield grabbed but be in good range to attack again. It pushes the opponents back dealing pretty good damage if all sparks hit, the knock back is not too good. It has many uses and can go pretty much unpunished with all of those uses.

Back Air (Back aerial A): This move combines every thing someone can ask for, great priority, a huge sweet spot, and pretty quick activation with good damage. Many people use this move to KO. It can also be used to deal damage, however not to the point of spamming it since you will need its knock back to KO. It is one of Ness’ great ways of KOing. There is not much to analysis here but you must recognize its priority knock back and good damage.

Up Air (Up Aerial A): This move is a reliable way of KOing off the top. Its hit box is very bizarre. Using this move is great however if you go to eager to Up air, you’ll find your attack quickly air dodged. To use this move effectively, if you know your opponent will air dodge get them with the long duration Forward air. Once you see an opening there is your chance to up air. It’s a great move but weird hit box. It can trade hits with many down airs that makes it really useful to attack people trying to attack back, sometimes its best not to take the damage of their Down air.

Down Air (Aerial down A): This move is a powerful Meteor smash; it also has enormous hit stun. Short hop down air is really effective. Due to ness landing in his rotation AFTER finishing his aerial (Thus it is NOT auto cancelable) he will land almost laglessly. If you do not finish the aerial first you will land with a nasty amount of lag. Doing this move is not really ever a bad choice. It can also shield stab off the top. Follow up techs with this move. I might as explain that now, let’s say your opponent just got Down Air and slams to the ground, how will he get up will he tech it? Will he roll? Will he get up like nothing happened? Or will he attack. Follow your opponent’s way of getting up. Once you see them down air them again and follow the bounce with your aerials. Meteor smashing with this move is pretty self explanatory. The down air also has a sour spot. This spot has great KOing power, sending the opponent horizontally. Knowing how to the sour spot is not a bad thing and it can help you.


[color:4eee="Green"]PK Flash (B): This move can be charged for great damage and knock back. The priority is unmatched by anything. The problem is that this move is easily dodged… Landing this move will take some time. Most of the time landing this move just won’t happen. You can land it however most of the times it’d be by catching recoveries that do not edge sweet spot the edge. The best way to use this move not fully charged. While the move having much less damage and knock back, it does have a good range and can do decent knock back. Ness does not experience the amount of lag you may think.

PK Fire (Forward B): This move traps opponents in a pillar of flames. It can lead to some attacks, for the most part is can be Smash DI’d out or downwards to shield to escape some of these things. There are many tricks for this move but I won’t really talk about those seeing how I don’t use them at all. The most basic and effective way to use this is Pk fire to grab. PK fire to Bat will only work on certain characters when the opponent is DIing properly.

PK Thunder (Up B): This move is great for juggling, it is a projectile with the greatest movement. It has a long tail that constantly refreshes its hit box. The tail is impossible to defend, it cannot be canceled. The head provides a shock that sends the opponent upward and in from where it hit. This is a great move and probably the best projectile Ness has.

PK Thunder 2 (Up B to hit yourself): This move is powerful with all the priority in the game. Nothing beats it, to you sage the Mach tornado does not beat it. I’ll put that explanation in here:

The key to landing this move is being in the right situation the most basic way to land it is going straight at the opponent, owever the most efficient way is PK Thunder swell surprise. This move has insane knockback and deals 25%. It is also one of the most versatile recovers.

Just some stuff with PK thunder my demonstration video:

Grab and Throws:

[color:4eee="SlateGray"]The grab (R + A)(Z)(Running Z): This move allows you to hold your opponent, it goes through shields and leads to powerful throws. Ness’ dashing grab allows him to slide really far while being able to grab opponents.

Pummeling (Grab A): This move allows you to damage the opponent in your grab. Every pummel is 1% later reducing to 0.5%. The times you can pummel are determined by the damage of the opponent and how much they do to break out.

Forward throw (Grab and forward): This move has pretty much set knock back due to the Growth knock back rate being so low. It deals decent damage. It is best used to space or get walk of screen kills and spacing. There is not much to this move.
Back throw (Grab and press back): This move has high knock back and is one of Ness’ best KO moves. It is great for finishing your opponent. However if you become too eager to try to grab when your opponent is at higher percents, you can get punished easily. The key is to grab when you get your chance and not go running at the opponent expecting to get a grab.

The down throw (Grab and down): Pretty useless if your opponent can DI well, normally can lead to an F air if they DI badly. Deals minimal damage but looks awesome. Earthbound360 thinks it has more uses than what I think...

Up throw (Grab and Up) It’s a decent throw, good for putting your opponent in the air, not much to say about this…

Last edited by plasmastar on Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide: Ness   Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:20 pm

[COLOR="Red"]Starting knock back rates:

D air sour spot: 3477 mph
D air sweet spot: 3598 mph

F air all hits: 1745 mph

N air earliest hit: 1580 mph
N air latest hit: 1058 mph

B air sweet spot: 1667 mph
B air sour spot: 778 mph

U air: 1581 mph

F tilt (up): 1385 mph
F tilt (middle): 1322 mph
F tilt (Down): 1265 mph

D tilt: 224 mph

Up tilt: 2280 mph

Jab: 566 mph
AA: 557 mph
AAA: 1927 mph

Up smash 4% hit: 2675 mph
Up smash full: 3460 mph

Down smash 4% hit: 2675 mph
Down smash full hit: 3628 mph

Forward smash tip uncharged: 2938 mph
Forward smash tip fully charged: 3827 mph
Forward smash in on hands uncharged: 2527 mph
Forward smash in on hands charged: 3033 mph

Dash attack: 2972 mph

Forward throw: 3904 mph
Down throw: 3058 mph
Back throw: 1645 mph
Up throw: 3678 mph


Growth rates

D air sweet spot: 23.3 mph
D air sour spot: 18.2 mph

F air all hits: 18 mph

Nair strong: 30.9 mph
N air weak: 21.3 mph

B air sweet spot: 41.4 mph
B air sour spot: 23.7 mph

U air: 38.8 mph

D tilt: 2.8 mph

F tilt (up): 33.2 mph
F tilt (middle): 30.9 mph
F tilt (Down): 28.4 mph

Up tilt: 26.9 mph

Jab: 5.8 mph
AA: 4.4 mph
AAA: 14.1 mph

Up smash 4% hit: Set knock back
Up smash full hit: 15.7 mph

Down smash 4% hit: Set knock back
Down smash full hit: 21.4 mph

Forward smash sweet spot uncharged: 38.4 mph
Forward smash sweet spot fully charged: 52.6 mph
Forward smash sour spot uncharged: 29.6 mph
Forward smash sour spot fully charged: 40.2 mph

Dash attack: 14.1 mph

Forward throw: 3.086 mph
Down throw: 4.23 mph
Back throw: 40.12 mph
Up throw: 11.39 mph

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PostSubject: Re: General Guide: Ness   Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:23 pm

SPECIALS Knock back

PK fire max knock back hit: 1477 mph

PK thunder 1: 2589 mph

PK flash uncharged: 845 mph
PK flash fully charged: 3203 mph

PSI magnet closest hit: 812 mph

PK THUNDER Ω (PKT2): 4433 mph
PK THUNDER Ω sour spot: 2646 mph


SPECIALS Growth rate

PK Fire max knock back hit: 11.3 mph

PK thunder 1: 11.8375 mph

PK flash uncharged: 18.26 mph
PK Flash fully charged: 65.13 mph

PSI magnet: set knock back

PK THUNDER Ω: 51.48 mph
PK THUNDER Ω sour spot: 38.34 mph

Techniques and Strategies

There are many techniques Ness has however, how to use them vary.

I'll just go over simple ones

[color:6543="Red"]Jab locking - Jab locking is a technique that allows you to combo an opponent across the stage until you run out of room.

How to jab lock: To jab lock you must Press a (Jab) at an opponent that is on the ground in laying position. Ness will jab and the opponent will bounce and move forward a little. Then you must move forward a bit and jab again. This will continue until you reach the end of the stage.

Pros of jab locking:
• You can rack up damage and refresh your moves
• Your opponent cannot escape if done properly until the stage ends

• Will not work at higher percents because your opponent can DI away

[color:6543="DarkOrange"]Jab canceling - This one allows you to do another attack standard attack or grab during jab instead of doing the third or second attack

How to Jab cancel: During an jab press down and then quickly press what ever other attack you were going to do. You can also do this by holding joy stick diagonally away from the direction you are facing.

Pros of Jab canceling:
• A quick and smooth transition from a jab to many other attacks including grabs

• Next attack can be shielded or spot dodged

[color:6543="Lime"]Down tilt lock - This one is pretty much the same as jab locking but with the Down tilt. This will only work without jabbing after 1% on Mario. Doing this will force your opponent to get up in the same spot, this allows you to forward smash. From Earthbound360:

• Forces a standing get up from the laying position when you jab 3 times first.
• Can lead to forward smash if you time it right using three jabs first.
• Racks up damage way faster than jab locking

• Will not work on way higher percents because opponent can DIing away

That's about all the techniques that you will mainly use, for more complicated ones see

Lets move on to strategies.

There are many ways to stop your opponent from recovering as Ness.

[color:6543="Yellow"]Edge guarding: This is basically just preventing your opponent from reaching the stage by attacking them when they are recovering. You can also stay on the stage, however if your opponent sweet spots it you cannot attack them when on stage. The best way to edge guard is with the Back air N air or F air. I personally use the back air since it has power knock back. All of them are good choices.

Edge hogging: This is grabbing the edge so that your opponent cannot. The best way to do this is by hugging the edge right before your opponent comes, I never see many of you Ness mains do this. Just learn the timing on peoples' recovers.

[color:6543="Purple"]Spamming Aerials: This is probably the best way to play Ness. This play style specializes in using Ness aerials. The reason you abuse his aerials is because they are good. When doing this there is a way to play and a way not to play. People who get punished for spamming aerials are doing it mindlessly. The basic way to do this is to short hop, Aerial and choose to land doing an aerial or double jump into another aerial. This choice has to be made based on the situation. Not being strategics when choosing to use your double jump can lead you having to recover with PK Thunder. Most of the time when you are about to land after doing your double jump to attack you use a Down air. This is because it's priority is really good and it can shield stab off the top. Along with the fact it will pop grounded opponents back into the air/ slam aerial opponents to the ground. Either way they get hit, it's going to be good for you.

Use all your aerials when doing this to rack up damage quicker. Also use each aerial differently and at different times. The key to becoming a master at this. Is trial and error. Each aerial effectiveness varies depending on the character your opponent uses. You also have to learn fast, because in a tourney match there's no "can I get a rematch because now I know how to beat your so and so". The person takes a win and you get a loss.

This is how I play and many other Ness' do the same. If you want to be good you have to start learning how to play like this.

Don't feel unique? Well think about it this way: When I F air you may N air. When I B air you might F air. You'll still have your own style in how you spam them.

Using your specials:
PK Fire: PK fire looks really good at first, Then you start realizing how many characters can easily DI out of it. Then it's just a good move. There are many fancy tricks to use this move I personally don't use these tricks but if you want to know them refer to PK cross in the sticky section.

The most common thing you'll get out of PK fire is a grab. This will help though because you can then throw to rack up damage.

Sometimes you may get a forward smash. This is because you opponent didn't DI fast enough.

This is a decent special despite how many people will tell you how easy it is to DI. There does however seem to be a percent range in which your opponent will have a harder time DIing from it.

Oh and spamming this on Bowser will cause his damage to raise really high. Poor guy...

PK flash: Using this uncharged creates almost an umbrella from attacks. I don't use this move too much but I must say half charge or uncharged does apply some effect uses. Fully charged seems too easy to air dodge.

PK thunder: This move is incredible mainly because of the control you have over it. This is great for juggling opponents to high percents. Tailwhip them and hit them with the head. Tail whipping is when you hit with the tail of Pk thunder in order to stun them for a bit. Repeating this process is effective. The only flaw with this move is that it can be reflected. Even if it is reflected it doesn't matter too much, most of the time it won't hit you.

PK thunder 2: Using this move is all in setting it up with the tail of PK thunder. You want to tail whip them before the land and then hit yourself. This way they will land when you reach the landing spot with PK thunder 2. You can also use this move to propel yourself directly downwards and land laying down without the lag of normally ending PK thunder 2. There are many ways to use this move and PK thunder. The only way not to use it is slamming directly into a full shield.

Also watch this:


In order to live a long time you have to know how to DI and recover your momentum. Many of you will Air dodge and jump. This is a BAD choice. The better choice would be performing an aerial. The aerial should have a short start up and short ending time. It doesn't matter how it changes your momentum. The best choices for this are the back air and neutral air. I personally use the Back air, this is because It is easier to hold forward and press the C stick back than press A and then slam forward.

Directional influence is key, The most basic way to DI is Left or right when hit up, and Up when hit left or right. However you must respect stage boundaries. If you are thrown back by a Ness in a low roof blast zone stage, you won't DI up. If you do you will Die faster.

Then there is smash DI: Smash DI in DIing during hit stun. This is mainly used to get out of multi-hit attacks. When smash DIing you should Slam the joy stick and C stick in the direction you want to move. Smash DI should also be used on attacks with larger hit stun, in brawl these are normally high powered electrical attacks such as PK thunder 2. Smash DI greatly decreases knock back. If it is a multi-hit attack in the same spot Smash DI outward. If it is a multi hit attack that is moving forward smash DI in (such as MK drill). Learning these DI attacks are important. It can save your life.

Lets get some examples: If you are on the edge of Final destination and Ness PKT2s you, you would want to smash DI Up and In on the hit stun. If you do just one you will decrease some knock back but combine the two and you can live for an extended amount of time.
You cannot SDI throws however.

When knocked vertically it is best to fast fall the aerial, this is easiest with the down air...

There is a lot more into DI but these are the basics, you'll learn more about DI certain attacks as you gain more experience.


[SIZE="5"]Recovering: Making it back to the stage[/SIZE]

This is one of the most important parts of playing Ness as a character, in fact it is overall the most important part of smash. If you cannot make it back to the stage you will die at much lower percents. So I'll be analyzing your options to recover. There are many of them. All have their pros and cons. Some are clearly better than others, however you'll find mixing them all up is the best way to go.

1. Basic ledge grabbing/ Landing on the stage

The most basic option ever. The most common way to do this is to double jump/pkt2 to grab the ledge. No tricks to it. You just aim for the ledge grab it and get back on the stage.
This method while basic and easy supplies little to no defense, and can have many openings depending on the condition of your opponent. This is by far only safe when your opponent is not there to block you. You can also just Double jump on the stage because usually Ness' recovery is that good.

2. Aerial defense

One of the more basic options. The point of this style is to gain defense by performing aerials to stop the opponent from interrupting. This method is very safe especially if you use the F air. Generally you want to land directly on the stage when using this because most likely the opponent won't stop his attempt completely if you F aired him once. Regardless this is the number 1 way to get back to the stage. The problems with this are that it is not always do able. Sometimes the opponent will out range your F air if you are moving forward, or just wait and edge guard you after it is done.

3. Fire block recovery

This one is situational but does supply a defense if practice as well as timed. This method will almost always leave you to using PKT2 but the defense is so great it almost doesn't matter. Basically in this method as you are headed to the stage, your opponent begins to jump out, you then PK fire them. If timed and spaced it should hit. Now if you have your double jump take the time to pillar spike them if they did not Smash DI back on to the stage. If you don't have your double jump just make it back. PKT2 and grab the ledge as the fire floats down to protect you if they try to ledge hog. Generally you are safe as long as you land the fire in the right spot. If you don't, they make it back and have room to ledge hog you.

4. PKT2 on stage recovery

This is the MOST situational recovery. This is Ness' way of saying "please please please! DON'T GIMP ME!". The problem of this recovery is that you have lost your double jump if you are resorting to PKT2 to land on the stage. This is pretty basic, use PKT2 to get on the stage and not be gimped. It's dangerous due to landing lag but you must do what you need to do not to get gimped. Mix up paths as you please. Times will come where this is necessary

5. PKT2 Path changing

In this section I'll just tell you the different paths. The most standard path is from below and a decent distance way. This is your normal Diagonal path. The second path but the most important one is a complete vertical recovery, this is important because sometimes you aren't away from the stage but you are below it. Learn this and you'll save a few stocks. There are some more complex paths in EB360's guide. The last path I will talk about is above and way, This is a really unexpected path. You will normally Aim for the ledge. You must have perfect aim or you'll die in a way you do not want to. You can also aim for the stage and hopefully either trick the opponent to getting hit or floor blast. All vary on the flight of this path, you must learn to control all symptoms.

Choose any path you like, JUST MAKE IT BACK.
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide: Ness   Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:26 pm

Ledge options

This is something I always struggled with. I couldn't quite figure out what to do. Recently I have be seeing various options that I will discuss as well as list.

1. Get up attack

Simple you get up on the stage performing an attack, if the opponent is attacking and you are in range to hit them you should perform this to attack them with invincibility frames. If shielded you can be punished. This is done by pressing A.

2. Standing up

This one is usually easy to punish unless you're opponent does not expect it and either gets grabbed or drops their shield into an attack. You can be punished if your opponent sees this and attacks before you can grab or counter from standing up. Kinda really basic. Generally you should not do this unless the situation is perfectly safe.

3. Rolling

Using this is simple it is generally used to avoid an attack that your ledge range cannot reach but can reach you. Rolling will usually end with you being behind the opponent. Spacing this is key or else you can be punish especially as Ness whose roll is not the fastest.

4. Jumping from the ledge

Jumping from the ledge allows you to do a jump to get above your opponent generally you do not want to do this. It has a wide opening to be attacked.

[SIZE="3"]Ledge dropped options[/SIZE]

These are options to do when you are holding the ledge, after just dropping from it. All but ledge stalling involve the use of your double jump

1. Defensive approaches

This is safe as well as ranged and generally will out range a lot. You should do this as one of the safest ways to get back up. You could N air but generally it is pointless. A good part about this is that you can double jump F air then B air depending on the opponent's DI/percentage.

2. Power approaches

This is used to KO or inflict damage after you are put into a ledge position. It is similar to the F air but does a more powerful blow with less range therefore less defense. The u air is a similar option.

3. Combo Approaches

This is a clever but less used response. This is giving up range and KO power, in order to gain the advantage combo wise. Since the D air leads to a lot, using this can lead to a lot of other things. Like the D air you can also use PK fire.

4. Ledge stalling

You can do this by dropping off and PKTing. EB360's guide talks a bit more about this. Generally I don't use this.


Really... Just throw stuff... Pk fire, thunder, flashes, yourself. Anything. If it can move in the air use it. Don't care if it hits a shield, do it right, Just don't miss. Get aggressive with your projectiles. Experiment. If you don't fall for the same trick twice don't use the same trick twice. You're whole move set is a combo. It's not about aerials or ground game, it's about things. If you can put things in people's ways, then do it. Take every opportunity to hit somebody with something, even if it is just the tail of your pkt. Try it all. The more you miss now the less you'll miss later. PK fires to pkt, to pk flash, to psi mag. If you aim it all, the best they can do is shield or dodge. Take action to punish them now, worry about your share of pain later. Does brawl count how much stuff you throw? I don't even know if it does, check to see if you threw 1000 things, if not, you threw too little. If brawl doesn't count the 1000. Don't be afraid. Throw all the glass stuff in your house, your parents will get really mad, but after that you'll be fearless.

Throwing your opponent

A grab is a basic punishment, thanks to it's quickness out of a shield, and it's ability to by pass the opponent's shield. After grabbing the opponent you have a few options. Let him go, pummel, or throw. Either way the opponent got punished. Once you throw your opponent you can choose to follow up in what ever way possible. The forward and up throws should be your main choices. The forward throw is great because of the purpose of this game, it's to get your opponent off the stage. The up throw is great on characters with bad air game, keep the opponent where their game is worse. The back throw on lower mid percents is a good choice, The only problem seems to be is that you must make sure you get enough moves in to return the back throw to it's original power before the opponent reaches the death percents. Umm that shouldn't be a problem right? People seem to find uses with the d throw so I guess it can be called good at low percents. When you release an opponent remember how you think they'll react, are they a defensive player? An aggressive player? Or Evasive player. And evasive player may roll to try and get away from you, and aggressive one will unleash his quickest attack, a defensive one will shield or spot dodge. A player who can't be read is better thrown. An all around tool when it comes to releasing your opponent is the yo yo. Spot dodges and evasive maneuvers behind you can all be hit, a good read on the opponents shield drop can also be hit. Just make sure they are in range.

Stage Strategies


[color:09ef="DarkOrchid"]Battlefield is a small stage consisting of 3 platforms with one higher than the other. It despite what some may think is a decent stage for Ness. There are many pros and cons about this stage. What makes it difficult for Ness to play here is not because Ness is bad on the stage, but because many other characters are good on the stage. The platforms help you because you can attack from underneath them. Some of the more favorable attacks from under the platforms are short hop aerials. Dropping through the platforms leaves you vulnerable however it also leaves your opponent vulnerable as well, take advantage of this, to avoid having to drop through, Fast fall on them.

Battlefield is not a favorable place for PK Thunder two. Platforms may eat you thunder while trying to PKT2. PKT is not useless however you can still easily juggle with it. PKT can go through platforms from the bottom but not from the top. You can also use the open space at the edge to PKT2.

Platform shield stabbing is helpful. If your opponent is tall and they shield you can still hit their feet which may not be covered by the shield. This means free short hop aerials. If your opponent gets hit while shielding and falls off the platform you can attack them in their tumbling motion. They will also always land in the position for jab locking, if tumbling.

Here are the Pros and cons of the stage:


• Platforms can lead to easy hits
• Small ground so it is easier to get opponents off stage
• Platforms lead to positions to jab locks.
• Platforms allow Ness to get closer to the top blast zone and hit with U airs.
• Aerial game is maximized by the platforms.
• D air puts opponent to land on one of the platforms.
• Opponents can't really attack you from above platforms
• Unlike Final Destination ledge cannot trap your recovery

• Many characters are better than Ness on this stage
• PKT2 is harder to do on stage
• Opponents can use all the pros against you
• Opponent has more places to land and avoid some of your projectiles.

This stage is a Starter meaning it can be chosen randomly on the first round in a tourney, be sure to look out for it.

Now for something from _Clinton
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide: Ness   Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:27 pm

Final destination

This is possibly one of Ness' best stages. There is nothing to block your projectiles. It is an open space and a flat stage. This is also the simplest stage in the game. This stage allows you to take advantage of every attack you have. Your attacks aren't blocked by any stage obstacles... PK thunder is great on this stage. You can juggle without the worry of platforms.

There are a few cons to this stage... the ground is flat and long. This means longer chain grabs.... ledge gap can gimp your recovery if you don't aim right.


•Flat stage with no hazards
•No obstacles to block projectiles
•Open space with normal blast zones.


•Long stage means long chain grabs
•Ledge can gimp your recovery

This stage is a Starter stage so it will be set on random. Look out for it.

Character strategies:

Okay this is to show you how to beat certain characters:

•Bowser :bowser:•

Bowser is a very weird opponent to face, while PK fire does trap him for a pretty long time, he can do many things out of grab releases to Ness.

If you are grab you will take some damage, the key is to make sure you jump break. To do this break out of the grab really fast and make sure you don't break while he is pummeling.
When Bowser goes to Bowser Bomb, smash DI the first hit this way you can avoid the second more powerful hit.

Bowser has a long ranged forward tilt. Keep him in the air. Bowser has some problems getting back down. His Down air doesn't have much range nor does he have too great of aerial mobility.

Bowser when being shield pressured will up b, this move the whirling fortress, has amazing priority and activates really fast. Also watch out for this when attacking the shield of Bowser. Also watch out for shield grabs.

PK fire is a really mean thing to do to Bowser. However don't get too caught up on landing this, you will be punished. PK fire when you can.

Watch out for Bowser's Forward air. It's a powerful aerial swipe that activates a lot faster than you will think. Bowser's back air is him jolting out his shell. Bowser will use this when edge guarding. You won't ever see him use this from a short hop due to the immense landing lag. The powerful Up air will KO you at low percents make sure you air dodge this.
DO NOT PSI MAGNET WHILE IN THE AIR. Just air dodge no amount of stalling in the air will protect you from a Up air when you leave your self in a position not to air dodge. Sure Bowser may miss once or twice because of a PSI magnet but in reality you could have just air dodged...

Bowser can stop your PKT2 from reaching the stage with fire breathe, the key for Bowser to do this is knowing when your recover ends, if he is still flaming you while your recover ends it may be possible to smash DI your way up to the stage off his fire breathe. If you choose to go down and PKT2 again the process may repeat it's self. While you may take some damage smash DI ing that up, It will be better than having this constantly happen. Even when Bowser's breathe is Dimming it can still work for quite a while.

Keep spamming the aerials and if the bowser isn't better than you, you should win, the key to knowing how to beat any character is to have enough match up practice. He's a rare encounter, so when you find one offline play them as much as you can.

•Ike :ike: •

Ike is a powerful character, his primary attack is his jab. His forward Air retreated is another powerful spacing tool. Ike's biggest weakness is his slow smashes and lack of a projectile.

Ike will often jab on the ground, this is for spacing and some damage. Watch out for his jab cancels, these can lead to stronger attacks, a grab or another jab. Ike will most often kill with his forward tilt, this is because of it's power and having less lag than his forward smash. Ike's Neutral air can lead to jabs, always be aware of this. Ike is decent at edge guarding. His retreated forward Air can constantly hit you away from the stage. Always try to avoid this.

Your best moves in this match are your aerials, jab and PK Thunder. Ike is pretty much perfect for DIing out of PK fire. Not too heavy but just right to easily smash DI down and spot dodge or shield incoming attacks. Ike's recovery is probably the best thing to take advantage of. The way to do this is PK Thunder, Try to bounce him into the stage this way he is at the perfect angle not to recover. At this angle the stage is too far for Aether and he is too low for Quick draw.

When Ike is using Quick draw send PK Thunder at him. This way he has to choose whether to slam into Pk thunder or get hit. While this situation is unlikely, be aware of this. Most of the time Ike will just quick draw instantly this way he is close enough to jab at you. Quick draw as no lag unless he Quick draws and swings for being too close. Spot dodge the Quick draw if you know he is too close or charged too much not to be able to end without swinging.

Ike is an incredibly hard opponent if you don't know what you are doing. His up smash has great range and is hard to spot dodge due to swinging so fast and hitting you in the landing lag. The Key to avoiding this is to move away from a charging Ike and if you have to air dodge proceed moving in one direction. It's better if you miss the chance to punish that than get hit by it.

Ness' Aerials can out range him. This is key to your stopping him from spacing with them. Do be careful when doing so being hit by his will send you a much greater distance than you sent him. Pressure his shield. Keep away from being jabbed. When Ike Quick draws to recover you can either take the hit or air dodge it, It will cause him to stop moving forward and fall downwards.

All in all Ike can be really hard to beat, just know how to and if you are truly a better player you should win.

•Peach 🍑

Peach is a character that has many aerial options. Her Down air is an amazing string if she uses her unique floating ability, Peach can Down air and then float to one side and come back with another down air. What you really want to do with is is probably shield. Give back damage is not worth taking so much of it. Peach's F air is probably one of her best killing moves. Avoid it.

One good thing about Ness vs. Peach is that Peach does not have the range advantage over Ness' aerials. Be Patient take your range advantages over her aerials. F air and when you get a really good chance N air or B air.

Peach's floating ability is great. Using this Peach can avoid PK thunder if you don't send it directly at her. If you do send it directly at her she can fan it with her various aerials.

When ever you catch a turnip use it to you advantage, Glide toss it. You can also used Jump canceled throws, these will let you slide as you throw, you gain a more distance than glide tossing. This however takes better timing. It also involves dashing and cannot be done properly directly out of shield. Use it to combine with aerial shield pressure. Basically use it like a peach player would. Most of the time you won't be catching these. Make sure to avoid them. You should not concern yourself as to what kind of turnip they are. Just know that you need to avoid them all. If you think "Oh no peach has a stitch face turnip" you will play with less pressuring and more defense, most likely you will get hit by it this way. Keep the pressure on and just avoid everything.

Peach is not the heavy of a character so you can KO her pretty early. To get in a KO move punish what ever laggy attacks she may have. Until she uses one of these, keep of the pressure with your aerials. You may even just get a KO move in the process. If you stop pressuring you can get damaged badly.

Basically there is not much of a trick to this match up, just stay focused and keep constant pressure. Always punish everything you can. Shield and avoid what ever attacks you can.

Peach can pull out some tricks that you may have never thought of. Be careful.

[SIZE="7"] General Tips:[/SIZE]

For the Ness players who actually go to tourneys I have posses some advice... The reason I'm posting this is to make it easy to find.

Hope Vice is okay with this but here is some advice from him
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